#33 - The Life and Times of Queen Marie-Antoinette

Queen Marie-Antoinette's life was a blend of luxury, controversy, and tragedy. Her story is a fascinating glimpse into the complexities of royal life and the turbulent times of late 18th century France – no wonder we remain fascinated with her tale.

We talk about some of the most important times in her life, her marriage at just 14 years old, fashion style – and big hair (really big hair, with things hung in it), her spending habits, bathing practices (which were unusually regular in a day and age when the French nobles pretty much just washed the worst bits when they had to, and her husband recorded he took 43 baths in 26 years), her astonishing shoe collection, motherhood and her family including several children she adopted.

We’ll also share where to find traces of her legacy in France, from her favourite castles including one with a room for sulking in, to the shops she frequented…

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Episode 33 - The Life and Times of Queen Marie-Antoinette

Janine: Bonjour, bienvenue, hello and welcome to The Good Life France Podcast where we dive deep into the culture, history, traditions, food and wine of France – in fact this is where you’re discover everything French in a fabulous and fun way. I’m Janine Marsh, your host and though I am British, born in London, I’ve lived in the north of France for many years and feel French in my heart. I’ve studied the French and written about the French way of life in several books, and I’m the editor of The Good Life France Magazine and website. When I’m not writing, travelling, working on renovating my old French farmhouse or being a maid to one of my many animals – I have around 50 in total, I love to chat to you here on this podcast with my podcast partner Olivier Jauffrit.

Olivier: Salut everyone, that’s sort of French for hi when you’re with friends. It’s more casual than “bonjour”. I’m French and I live in sunny Lyon in the south of France, the opposite end of France to Janine. And when I’m not chatting to Janine here, I play the best vintage French music on my radio station ParisChanson.fr because I love French Chanson and especially the old classics from Edith Piaf, Charles Aznavour, Charles Trenet, Maurice Chevalier. Who doesn’t ? Plus, it’s a fantastic soundtrack to listen to, while you are visiting France!

But, enough about us, let’s get this show on the road – Janine, what are we doing to talk about today…

But, enough about us, let’s get this show on the road – Janine, what are we going to talk about today…

Janine: A while back we did a podcast about Versailles and of course Queen Marie-Antoinette was mentioned and we said then, there’s so much more to say about her, so today’s podcast is dedicated to the enigma of Versailles, a fashion icon to this day and a woman who continues to fascinate people more than 200 years after her death. We’ll talk about some of the most important times in her life, her fashion style, her family, and where to find traces of her legacy in Paris, from her homes to the shops she frequented…

Olivier: It’s true in France we are just as fascinated by this queen who had her head cut off by our ancestors, these days we are not so angry with her, rather we feel a bit sorry for her. So, let’s step into the opulent world of the last Queen of France.

Janine: We start with Marie-Antoinette’s arrival in France. She was just 14 years old when she was sent to marry the King in waiting Louis XVI who was just a year older than her. I can’t imagine how daunting and frightening that must have been. Her marriage to Louis was a diplomatic alliance, and their early years were marked by awkwardness and distance – a rocky start for a teenage queen in a foreign court.

Olivier: Her young husband to be was was known as the Dauphin, which indicated he was the eldest son of the King, and his wife was known as the Dauphine. He wrote in his diary on the day she arrived, May 14, 1770 “interview with Madame la dauphine” it was the first time they had met. And on May 16 he wrote “my wedding, apartment in the gallery, royal feast at the opera hall.”

Janine: Not very romantic. No words about love or even liking her. Her journey from Austria took three weeks. When she arrived in France, she had a beautiful Austrian wedding dress to wear but she was made to change it to wear a French style dress – which people said “made her a 1000 times more charming” and she was cheered all the way to Paris by the crowds that gathered to watch her journey to meet her husband to be and become a queen in waiting. There were more than 5000 guests were invited to the wedding. As the couple walked through the famous Hall of Mirrors to the Chapel of Versailles, drums rolled, flutes played, the ceremony was followed by days of parties, dances, banquets, opera, masked balls, boat rides on the Grand Canal at Versailles and a firework display of 20,000 rockets watched by 200,000 people.

Olivier: You’re right – her relationship with the king was not very romantic at least to start. The bride and groom were both shy and inexperienced which led to trouble in the bedroom. Although, over the years, they made several attempts (nothing at Versailles was private), their marriage wasn’t consummated until seven years after their wedding night. Some say that Louis had a physical problem that required a little surgery, but most evidence suggests that the couple was just clueless.

Janine: It’s said that they grew quite fond of each other in the end – which is just as well as divorce in those days wasn’t an easy thing. And here’s a fun fact, the King’s Master of Ceremonies provide 12 gold wedding rings for Marie-Antoinette to try on, which she did one by one until one fit.

Olivier: What sort of life did Marie-Antoinette have? Well her daily routine was anything but private. Rising at the crack of dawn, every moment, from her dressing to her bedtime, was a public affair attended by courtiers. Imagine having an audience while you're trying on shoes or having a bath.

Janine: It was recorded that the Queen bathed daily in her linen dressing gown buttoned up to the neck – I don’t blame her for that – all those prying eyes. Louis, her husband was obsessive about recording his daily activities and his diaries and notebooks are preserved in the French National Archives so we know for instance that in 26 years he took 43 baths.

Olivier: Well in those days in France it wasn’t that fashionable to bath, people just used to wash the worst bits when necessary!

Janine: Nice!

Olivier: It was believed that bathing was unhealthy, because so called medical experts at the Sorbonne University in Paris had declared that warm water opened the pores which let disease in.

Janine: When the Queen began to lose her popularity with the people, they slandered her for bathing habits saying it was too “German” for a Queen of France. They didn’t then have bathrooms like we know them, there was no permanent bath, but her bathtub would be rolled into a room called a bathroom and filled, bucket by bucket, with hot water. Actually when I was a kid, growing up in inner London, we didn’t have a bathroom either and we had a tub that hung on the wall which my mum would fill with buckets of water. Anyway, once the bathtub was full, the queen would add perfumes to the water. She apparently used either a special herbal mixture that included salt, thyme and marjoram, or perfumed sachets of sweet almonds, pine nuts, and lily bulbs which had been designed especially for her baths by her perfumer. Sometimes she ate breakfast in the bath! After that she would go through a public dressing ceremony, though in later years she had it toned down. Which brings us neatly to the queen’s fashion and hair.

Olivier: Let’s start with her hair! She popularized the pouf, a towering hairstyle adorned with anything from feathers to miniature ships! In the eighteenth century, it was fashionable for women to expand themselves. Their dresses were widened with panniers, like upside down baskets under their skirts. And hair was elevated – big, big hair, nothing like the 1980’s penchant for big hair – much bigger than that. Hair was combed, curled, greased with a mix of bear or ox fat – nice, not – and then dusted with powder.

Janine: And if you think pink hair and blue hair are a 21st century Kardashian thing – you’re wrong, the women of the royal court often coloured the powder with blue, lilac, pink and even gold dust!

Olivier: Cushions or pads made of horse hair were inserted to give height, and false hair clipped on to give length.

Janine: The queen and all the woman of the court liked to outdo each other with mad hair styles and theme their big hair. They added toy ships, jewels, even vegetables and vases that contained real flowers. One fashion victim, and I think we can use that word well here, had her stylist weave a concoction on her head that was over three feet tall and included a gilded bird cage with a live, tweeting bird inside! A duchess had a scale model of her son’s nursery in her hair complete with a nanny and servants – not real ones of course, little scale models – like a lego town on her head. Hmmm. How chic…

Olivier: The problem with hair that big is that often the women couldn’t fit into their carriages and had to kneel on the floor or ride with their heads out the window! And the big hair do’s were definitely a fire hazard at the candle lit castles.

Janine: And what with not bathing and not having particularly good hygiene, fleas were pretty much on every head, so some fashionable women carried long thin sticks with claws for scratching their heads with – yuck!

Olivier: The Queen’s wardrobe was equally lavish, filled with gowns of luxurious fabrics. Marie Antoinette’s style was extravagant She wasn't just setting trends; she was a fashion revolution in a corset. Make-up and shoes were a big deal for the queen. She favoured a pale, powdered face with bright rouge.

Janine: She loved lipstick too which in those days was a mix of animal fat and red colouring, usually from beetroot or crushed insects. Lipstick was so popular in the 1780s that apparently French women went through two million pots a year.

And she loved her high-heeled shoes. Her shoe collection was so vast that it would make even the most avid collector blush! It was claimed that she had anything up to 3000 pairs of shoes in her wardrobe at one time though it’s likely it was a more modest 500 pairs – nothing really!

Janine: She had tiny feet, size 33 (or 2 and half in the US). And as for dresses, she apparently ordered up to 300 dresses a year. Her clothing allowance was the equivalent of about 3 and a half million dollars a year, but she often spent twice as much – up to the equivalent of 20,000 dollars a day. And it was said that she never wore the same thing twice. All this spending gave her the nickname “Madame Deficit.”

She caused uproar when in 1781 she wore a muslin dress designed by her favourite dress-maker Rose Bertin – she used material not made in France and dressed like a milkmaid. And when a portrait of her wearing the dress was unveiled in public, people were angry that she should dress like a commoner for fun, when the real commoners were starving due to food shortages. But the wealthy of England and Europe lapped up this new “simple” fashion which many consider influenced women’s fashions of the 18th century.

Olivier: A few years later, a scandal over a stolen necklace worth a king’s ransom, tarnished the Queen’s reputation further. A thief convinced a cardinal that the Queen wanted him to buy the necklace on her behalf and then promptly disappeared with it. Although the Queen was proven innocent, the mud stuck. Not long later the French Revolution began and the Queen’s excesses at a time of poverty for ordinary people certainly didn’t help. She also wasn’t popular with some of the nobles and they loved to add fire to the smoke of a scandal that involved her. Marie Antoinette’s name was often linked with lovers, but it seems likely that it was fake news of the day. She was watched constantly so she didn’t really have that much of a chance to canoodle. But she is famously said to have had a Swedish lover – one Count Axel von Fersen.

Janine: While historians debate the true nature of their relationship, their intimate letters suggest a deep connection, but there is no real proof that she was unfaithful to the King. She was a devoted mother, a side often overshadowed by her queenly duties. She had four children, though sadly only one survived to adulthood.

Her motherly affection was clear in her letters, filled with worries and joys about her children's well-being. She’s often portrayed as a selfish Queen spending the country’s money on her lavish lifestyle, unconcerned about the suffering all around her. But she had a compassionate side and a special place in her heart for children. In fact, she just adopted several children. The first one was an orphan called Armand in 1776 and he lived with the royal family until the French Revolution when he joined the revolutionaires.

Olivier: Marie-Antoinette gave birth to her first child in 1778 – Marie Therese Charlotte and the queen asked that her maid’s daughter of the same age act as companion to the young princess. When the maid died, the queen adopted the daughter and instructed that both girls be treated equally.

She also adopted a young Senagalese boy, and three orphaned girls, the two eldest went to a convent and one lived in the palace. And she supported many other children financially. Though she wasn’t perfect, she does seem to have had a good heart.

Janine: Of her four children only the eldest, Marie Therese Charlotte survived her mother. Of her two sons, one died aged 7 of tuberculosis, one died age ten in prison during the Revolution and the youngest child, a daughter died aged 11 months in 1787. It was said that she died from convulsions triggered by the pain of her teeth coming through.

Olivier: The queen’s inner circle was a mix of nobility and confidantes. She was particularly close to the Princesse de Lamballe and the Duchess de Polignac, women who became her closest friends and companions in the often lonely and cutthroat environment of Versailles. These friendships, however, also attracted criticism and envy, as they were seen as symbols of the queen's perceived favoritism and extravagance.

Janine: Despite her luxurious lifestyle, Marie Antoinette's life was not without hardships. The French Revolution dramatically changed her fate. From a life of opulence, she faced public hatred, imprisonment, and ultimately, a tragic end. Her. last years contrasted starkly with her early life that’s for sure.

Olivier: In the world of fashion, even during her imprisonment, Marie Antoinette maintained her dignity. She wore a simple white dress to her execution, a marked departure from her previous lavish attire, yet it was a powerful statement of her grace under pressure. On October 16, 1793, she died aged 37 by guillotine just as her husband had before her. The crowd cheered and shouted Vive la Republique as her head fell, some rushed to dip handkerchiefs in her blood.

Janine: Her body was hurled into an unmarked grave. 22 years later, she and Louis were properly reburied at the Basilica of St Denis in Paris. The guillotine that was used is said to be owned by the Tussaud Museum in London, bought by Joseph, son of Marie Tussaud the waxwork artist from the grandson of the official executioner. Madame Tussaud also created death masks for many of the victims of the guillotine during the Revolution, including Marie-Amtoinette

If you’d like to follow in the queen’s footsteps in and around Paris, here are a few places not to miss:

Olivier: The royals moved from castle to castle and Marie-Antoinette left her mark in many of them. At the Chateau of Rambouillet, in a forest on the outskirts of Paris, the queen had a dairy built from marble. And don’t miss the extraordinary Chaumière aux Coquillages, or Shell Cottage, built for her friend the Princess de Lamballe.

Janine: At the chateau of Fontainbleau, the queen commissioned a ‘Turkish Boudoir’. It was to be a room to allow her to ‘bouder’ or sulk, away from the rest of the court. Sadly however, she never got to enjoy it. The work was put on hold when the French Revolution broke out and wasn’t completed in her lifetime.

Olivier: Head to the sumptuous Palace of Versailles. It’s a short journey out of the city to see the home where the Queen spent much of her time and truly left her mark. You really get a feel for her taste and style in her State rooms and private rooms. Full of pale silks and beautiful wood carvings, paintings of cherubs and flowers. The monumental gilded palace dazzled the world when it was created and still does. No photo does justice to its opulence. The 700 rooms were home to some 3000 courtiers, but up to 20,000 people would be present for events, dinners, parties.

Janine: To escape life in the spotlight, Marie-Antoinette spent a lot of time at the Petit Trianon a small, more intimate palace in the grounds of Versailles. Initially it was a gift from Louis XV to his mistress Madame Pompadour. Marie-Antoinette used it as her private refuge. And also in the grounds of Versailles is The Queen’s Hamlet, her escape from the tedium and rules of the palace, where she sometimes dressed up as a shepherdess. The queen aimed to create a tranquil space of rustic beauty with little cottages, barns and farm animals. It functioned as a working farm too with a dairy, so that the royal children could be educated about agriculture and food production.

Olivier: The Osmotheque perfume museum in the town of Versailles is the world’s largest scent archive and famous for recreating Marie-Antoinette’s perfume using spices, honey, oils and aromatics.

Janine: In Paris, the park and the chateau de Bagatelle were created in just 64 days in 1775 as a result of a bet between Marie-Antoinette and the King’s brother, the Count of Artois. Bagatelle in French means ‘trivial’ or ‘trifle’. The area was once used for hunting and when the count purchased it, Marie-Antoinette bet him 100,000 Livres, the currency of the day, and about 2 and a half million dollars in today’s money, that he couldn’t create somewhere to receive her after she returned from a 2 month journey. However, he hired 900 workmen and spent one million Livres – and won his bet. There is a magnificent rose garden, gigantic trees, waterfalls and caves. Concerts and exhibitions are held there in the summer.

Olivier: In the Louvre museum, there are several paintings of the queen including by Elisabeth Vigée le Brun. She was Marie-Antoinette’s personal portraitist despite being a commoner and a woman, unusual for an artist then. She painted more than 30 portraits of the queen. There are more of her paintings at the Palace of Versailles. And wander the Tuileries Gardens at the Louvre where the queen would have strolled often as the royal couple stayed at the Tuileries Palace during the French Revolution under a sort of house arrest. The castle was destroyed in 1871 during another revolution known as the Paris Commune.

Janine: Not many of the Queen’s clothes remain, most were destroyed during the French Revolution. But some are kept at the Palais Galliera Fashion Museum which has the world’s leading collection of 18th century dresses. Some of her clothes also survive in small collections, like at the Chateau of Menthon Saint Bernard near Annecy in Haute Savoie where one of Marie-Antoinette’s dresses is in a glass case, it was giving to one of her ladies in waiting who lived at the castle – it looks like it was made yesterday, so beautifully preserved.

Olivier: Rue Saint-Honoré in Paris is where Marie-Antoinette’s favourite dress-maker Madame Rose Bertin had a boutique first at no. 234 and later in front of the St Roch church. They would meet almost every week and Rose was dubbed ‘minister of fashion’ by the queen’s critics.

Janine: Lubin perfumerie was opened in Paris by Pierre-François Lubin who was trained from the age of 10 by Jean-Louis Fargeon, supplier of the Queen’s perfume and beauty products. He created a pair of scented gloves for her using scents from hyacinths, violets, musk jonquils and carnations. When the Queen was in prison, Lubin would take her parcels of her favourite toiletries from Fargeon.

Olivier: Sulpice Debauve was the King’s chemist,and he made chocolate buttons for the queen, called pistoles, in which he disguised the taste of her medicine. After the Revolution, he opened Debauve & Gallais chocolatiers in Paris. To this day they make pistoles (but no medicine of course!).

Janine: Pop into Patisserie Stohrer on rue Montorgeuil, the oldest cake shop in Paris which opened in 1730. It’s entirely possible the Queen may have indulged here, the shop was opened by her father-in-law’s pastry chef.

Olivier: Not far from the Louvre visit the Conciergerie, once a medieval royal palace. In the French Revolution it became a centre of detention and Marie-Antoinette’s prison. Here you can visit her prison cell, it’s the sort of place where you’ll get goose bumps.

Janine: There is also a creepy room they called “the grooming room” where prisoners had their hair cut before going to the guillotine.

Olivier: From there she was taken by cart along the rue Saint-Honore, to what is now Place de la Concorde to be executed in front of what is now the Hotel de Crillon. The square was called Place de la Revolution at the time. The Chapelle Expiatore marks the spot of her first burial on Place Louis XVI. Inside the chapel is a reproduction of her last moving letter to the king’s sister. which reads : “I am calm, as one is when one’s conscience reproaches one with nothing… I embrace you with all my heart, as I do my poor dear children. My God, how heart-rending it is to leave them forever! Farewell!

Janine: Marie Antoinette's life was a blend of luxury, controversy, and tragedy. Her story is a fascinating glimpse into the complexities of royal life and the turbulent times of late 18th century France – no wonder we remain fascinated with her tale.

But now it’s time for a listeners question…

Oli: Today’s question is from Laura Turnbull of Liverpool in England. She asks “My friend says there are more dogs than people living in Paris – is it true?” Well that’s a fun question Laura! Janine what do you think?

Janine: Erm I think non, absolutely not, unless they are all hiding because I do see people with dogs in Paris but not that many though I can understand why someone might think that it’s true there are more dogs than Parisians as the city has a bit of a reputation for having dog poop on the pavements! Actually I don’t find that true either.

Oli: Yes you’re right Janine, there are way more people than dogs in Paris and I agree, the pavements are not THAT bad at all! Thanks so much for that question, Laura. If you also have a question for us – feel free to send it to janine@thegoodlifefrance.com or via our podcast newsletter. And, if there’s a topic you want to know more about – let us know!

Janine: Thank you, a huge merci beaucoup, to everyone for listening to our podcast from all around the world! And an enormous thank you for sharing the podcast with your friends and family, we’re truly grateful when you do that.

Oli: You’ve been listening to Janine Marsh and me Olivier Jauffrit. You can find me at parischanson.fr

Janine: And you can find me and heaps of information about France – where to visit, culture, history, recipes – everything France - at thegoodlifefrance.com where you can subscribe to the podcast, my weekly newsletter about France and our totally brilliant, totally free magazine which you can read at magazine.thegoodlifefrance.com

But for now, it’s au revoir from me.

Olivier: And goodbye from me.

Janine: Speak to you soon!

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#33 - The Life and Times of Queen Marie-Antoinette

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