#59 - Very French Things Part 2

Discover the mystery of French time keeping, the ‘national sport’ of striking and more very French things. A laugh out loud episode and a deep dive into the psyche of the French! 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 2:45 Very French Things Part 2
• 23:46 Where to find Janine

Transcript

Very French Things Part 2

Janine: A great big bonjour and bienvenue, welcome to The Good Life France Podcast! I’m your host Janine Marsh, and I’m an ex-Londoner living in France, in the far north, rural Pas de Calais which I adore. I have a large feathered and furry family, 4 dogs, 7 cats and way too many chickens, I can’t eat all those eggs, my husband is allergic to them but what we can’t eat, we swap for beer in our local bar. But much as I love it here, I also love to travel all around France researching all things French to write about for my website and magazine The Good Life France which is free at magazine.thegoodlifefrance.com. When I’m not travelling or writing, I love to chat to you on this podcast alongside my podcast partner Olivier.

Oli: Bonjour tout le monde, yes indeed, a great big welcome. I’m Olivier, but you can call me Oli – all my friends do! I’m French, though I think that I may have a bit of a British accent after living in the UK for 20 years. Now I’m living and working in Lyon where I’m a radio presenter – the drive time slot! And yes I too love to chat to you wherever you are – more than 150 countries around the world! So that’s us and now to the nitty gritty – Janine what’s today’s topic – please tell us!

Janine: Well the other day, you and I were talking about the differences you’ve noticed coming back to France after living in the UK. And I thought it would be fun to talk about some of very French things that I love about France – like strikes – now hear me out, I’m not saying I love strikes per se, but I love that the French have the right to strike and are prepared to stand up for their rights. And another difference I’d like to talk about is the mystery of French time – cos let me tell you folks, coming from Britain where we are somewhat obsessed with time keeping, in France the attitude to time keeping is let’s say more laissez faire (little bit of French for you there!), they’re a little more liberal about where the hands on the clock are and - well frankly it’s a bit of a shock. So we’re going to talk about some of the things that make France uniquely French!

Oli: It’s true, coming back after 20 years away, I see things I never noticed before, some things are wonderful you know like street markets which I took for granted when I lived here before but now, having lived without them for so long, I am so happy to have them again. But other things are just so weird to me now. It’s a great topic – let’s go, on y va – we’re going to get stuck right into Very French Things part 2!

Oli: The great French writer Victor Hugo once said “La France est grande parce qu’elle est la France,” France is great because she is France. He definitely had a way with words didn’t he. But that in itself is a very French statement – it’s kind of philosophical, and we’ll talk a bit more about philosophy I’m sure since that is a very French thing. So let’s have a look at what it is about the French mindset that helps make France what it is.

Janine: I got my first taste of French life when I stayed with a French family at the age of fourteen in the banlieue, the suburbs of Paris. I discovered boulangeries and patisseries, markets, bistros, the goûter, a small snack in the afternoon, drinking coffee out of bowls, the Eiffel Tower, Versailles and greeting friends and family with a kiss, la bise. I lived in a council house in London – we drank tea with milk and two sugars, had bread out of a plastic wrapper and desert was a packet of chocolate powder and mostly starch to make it firm up when mixed with milk and we called it chocolate pudding. Hmm. France was incomparably exotic to me. I never even dreamed as a fourteen-year-old that I might one day live in France. But I do! And I am still intrigued about the ways in which France is so… very French. I love people watching and to discover the ways that French history has shaped how French people think and behave in their daily lives.

Oli: If you have never lived in or visited France and know it from films, television and books, you might be tempted to think that life in France is all about living in a luxury villa in sun-kissed Provence, surrounded by vineyards and lavender fields. Or perhaps you think we all live in balconied apartments overlooking the Eiffel Tower in Paris. Or we all spend two hours every day eating long lunches where every meal is haute cuisine, and that every woman is slim and stylish and every man is handsome and seductive. It’s true actually. LOL. 

Janine: Well, I have to say this could be wishful thinking on your part Oli, and yes it is a very rosy view of life in France. But, we have to say that there are some elements of truth in the France that many view through rose coloured glasses - Provence is beautiful, there are gorgeous Haussmanian apartments overlooking the Eiffel Tower with balconies. But - that is not the whole picture.

Oli: On the other hand, if you read the newspapers then you may think that we French are constantly on strike, protesting about this and that or that we’re all going around being rebellious dressed in yellow jackets and complaining about the fact that we do not in fact live la vie en rose, a rosy life of dreams.

Janine: Well… that scenario isn’t true either - or at least not entirely. Like the picture we painted before – you know the one with the villa in Provence surrounded by lavender fields, well this description also has elements that are right – but again it’s not the whole picture.

The truth is that France is a complicated country, it’s not perfect, nowhere is, though I have to say I absolutely love it here and I can’t imagine being anywhere else. I love that the arts and culture are honoured, traditions and history are revered, people are polite, that daily markets with fresh seasonal food, excellence in cooking and fabulous local wines are a way of life. I love the rich and diverse landscape which encompass stunning coastlines, majestic mountains and glorious countryside. And I love that the French have their little quirks and unique ways, and that if you explore history you can see how some things came to be very French.

Oli: It’s true, we French have a strong sense of national identity and we keep a tight grip on traditions and honouring the past. We’re enormously proud of our gastronomy, wine and beautiful country. We are proud of our French-ness – even if that includes striking – as you said Janine, we believe it is our right to protest and strike.

Janine: So let’s talk a bit about the whole French striking thing! And it is a thing, there’s even a website called c’est la Greve – greve meaning strike, and it gives details of ongoing and future strikes by region. Sometimes you look at it and think mon dieu, though I did look before we started the podcast and there was just one strike listed in just one city where transport workers are striking for a month by not working overtime - but nothing major.

Oli: That’s such a French website Janine! And you know just because we strike doesn’t mean we don’t love our country. It’s just the way it is. Some people say it’s a national sport in France to strike!

Janine: But have you ever wondered why it’s that way. I have and I have a theory!

Oli: Let’s hear it…

Janine: Well as an outsider, the French can seem like a difficult bunch. If you’re coming on holiday to France and you read Air traffic control strikes, train strikes etc you’re likely to be sighing with frustration at the very least. And let’s face it, non-French newspapers take great pleasure in reporting how strikers have shut down airports, ferry ports, railway services or dumped tractor loads of cow dung outside municipal buildings.

Oli: And of course we had the uprising of the ‘yellow jackets’, protesters wearing bright safety vests, in a more recent episode of French civil disobedience and that made world-wide headlines.

Janine: Absolutely. Though I have to say the yellow jackets I met were mostly sat on roundabouts in main roads, having picnics and smiling as they told you what they thought of the Government! As a non-Frenchie, at first I was like, why does everyone want to strike? Sometimes, I have to say this Oli, the French can seem a bit morose, a bit miserable.

Oli: Yes, I agree, coming back to France I see how you get that impression. I saw a report about a world happiness index where people filled in a questionnaire and only 50% of French respondents agreed that they were happy. But come toujours, as usual, that’s not the whole picture. Only 10% of the people who completed the survey said they were actually unhappy and 40% ticked the ‘neither happy nor unhappy’ box which definitely says something about the way French people think! Like it’s a philosophical questions – are you happy or unhappy – everyone non French: yes or no. French people – I am neither! Lol!

Janine: Yep there’s a famous French economist called Claudia Senik and she once said ‘The fact of living in France reduces by twenty percent the probability of declaring oneself very happy’. Well it looks like it might be 40% not 20%. What she said made me laugh out loud – it’s so true, being French means that you will not declare you are happy. 

Oli: We have a hundreds of years old saying in France ‘Pour vivre heureux vivons caches’ - ‘Live hidden if you want to live happily’.

Janine: Anyway to get back to the strike thing. I think that the right to strike goes back to the French Revolution when people had to fight hard for their rights, so hard it’s never been taken for granted, and it’s seen as a fundamental entitlement of Frenchness to make sure the ruling powers know when you’re hacked off. Though to be fair, even before the French Revolution the French peasants frequently rioted, especially about the right to have decent bread, which was such a huge part of the diet of the poor. So, it seems that protests, striking are a very French thing generally, but I believe the French Revolution made the right to strike a non-negotiable privilege.

Oli: And you saying about the happiness thing, that’s something I totally agree with, there’s a lot to be happy about in France – great healthcare, marvellous markets, fabulous museums, the best vineyards in the world – but we do love to complain! I think that most French people –  not including the Yellow Jackets, strikers and unhappy, overworked farmers dumping cartloads of manure outside municipal offices – aren’t as miserable as they think they are all of the time, but rather as much as they think they ought to be!

Janine: Yes – that’s so true. Underneath it all, there is a general acceptance that on the whole to be French is to be grateful. Except when the Government try to mess with your standard of living, for instance wanting to increase the retirement age or trying to introduce changes that may not be beneficial to living life the way you want to. Then to be French is to have the God-given right to complain, and if that doesn’t work, to strike, demonstrate and rebel. 

Oli: Basically, it’s a very French thing – we protest. That’s it.  

Janine: So now let’s talk philosophy. I can’t tell you how surprised I was to see so many French TV shows there are about philosophy, and to see how many philosophy books there are in the shops! Philosophers in France achieve celebrity status – I mean I don’t even think I could name a single British philosopher. But here in France philosophy is mandated on the French school curriculum. And when those kids grow up, they still love to talk philosophy. Emmanuel Macron, President of France studied philosophy and French newspapers love to consider how his studies have a bearing on his policies.  Oli are you a philosopher?

Oli: Je pense, donc je suis, I think therefore I am.

Janine: lol. Yep, it does sometimes feel like everyone is a philosopher in France.

Oli: It was Rene Descartes who said I think therefore I am. He was born in Touraine, the Loire Valley in 1596, and he wrote a book called Discourse on the Method for Conducting One's Reason Well and Seeking Truth in the Sciences which is said to mark the birth of modern philosophy. He became very famous and used to give philosophy lessons to the Queen of Sweden! You want to hear a philosophy joke?

Janine: Honestly I’m not sure.

Oli: Rene Descartes invites a date to a restaurant. The sommeilier gives Descartes date the wine list and she chooses the most expensive wine on the list. “I think not” says Descartes.

Janine: Is that it? Zut alors.

Oli: No one French says Zut alors!

Janine: That joke deserved a zut alors! Even my Bread Man is a philosopher, he delivers the bread to my village, he’s not the Pillsbury Dough Boy – which if you know what I’m talking about will make you laugh, he’s not made of bread! If you ever go to dinner with a French person, be prepared to tackle philosophy in some form or other. The first time it happened to me was in the lovely Loir region. We were staying at a chambre d’hotes, a B&B owned by the village mayor who lived in a mini chateau next door. He invited us to dine with the family one night and over the meal the whole family including teenaged kids, discussed the works of the great French writer Alexandre Dumas and in particular his outlook that ‘Learning does not make you learned: there are those who have knowledge and those who have understanding. The first requires memory and the second philosophy.’ And they were serious. It was fascinating. And yes philosophy - it’s a very French thing. 

Oli: Ok something I have noticed when I came back to France is that we French have a different attitude to shopping from some countries. In the UK and the US for instance you have Black Friday and people go mad to get bargains, which are often, I think not really bargains, it’s about you have to spend a lot of money to save money. But it’s big news, your inbox is full of Black Friday offers, they say everything is an irresistible price, you need it, you want it, you have to buy it. In France we’re like “C’est Quoi Black Friday?” - what is Black Friday?

Janine: Black Friday has become a bit of a thing in France, but not a big thing. The place where I buy my dog food sort of got it last year but they called it Green Friday, I’m not sure why, perhaps because they sell plants or maybe they don’t like the colour black? But I did get a 5% discount on my dog food!

Oli: I think we are not as big into shopping as some countries. In the UK for birthdays and Christmas we bought presents for each other, family, friends  you know. But here, it’s more likely to be that we buy a very good box of chocolates, or a cake or a bouquet of flowers, or some good local products wrapped up to look pretty. It’s less about the amount and more about the gesture. Quality not quantity.

Janine: I definitely agree, and I love that on Sundays, most shops are closed so that people can have a proper work-life balance. It’s changed quite a lot in the last few years I’ve been here though, and the rules have been relaxed so that some shops can open on Sundays, florists and supermarkets commonly open in rural areas on a Sunday morning and in cities many shops open for several hours on Sundays. But still the majority of shops remain closed on a Sunday. Many shops close on a Monday so that staff who worked on Saturday can have a full two days off. And workers rights are fiercely protected. Many shops, offices, even banks close for a two-hour lunch break, how else can French people enjoy a decent three-course lunch?! Which leads me to another very French Thing. Time.

Oli: What do you mean? How can time be a French thing?

Janine: Oli – I gotta tell you, French time is a mystery yet to be solved. The French treat time a little differently to the rest of us. Ask a French person directions – 5 minutes that way they’ll say. 15 minutes later you’ll arrive. Ten minutes this way French time equals 20-25 minutes.

Oli: Ok maybe you have a point! And you know when you’re asked to dinner with friends, it’s customary to turn up later than the time you were told to be there, and still be considered perfectly punctual. It’s called the le quart d’heure de politesse or le quart d’heure de courtoisie, or even le quart d’heure Parisian or Toulousian depending on where you live. It’s accepted that guests will be anything from five to 30 minutes late when asked to dinner in France.

Janine: And it’s not just dinner where this happens. When I meet friends for drinks, or turn up for a meeting - the same things happens – never quite on time. It’s weird frankly! And talking of meetings, here’s a fun fact – the French spend more time than anyone else in the world dealing with administration. Ok maybe I made that up but… it could be true.

Oli: Ok – I agree, another thing I have definitely noticed is how much administration there is here. Even though things are moving more online in France, paper copies of your tax payments, electricity bill, rates, phone bill, driving licence, birth certificate and marriage certificate are frequently required  in paper form by one or other banking or bureaucratic body. Do you know that around 22% (almost 6 million people) of the active population of France is employed by the state? No wonder we have so much administration to deal with!

Janine: On the plus side, when the French are not on strike, the country runs fairly smoothly with a world class health service, excellent holiday allowance, usually 5 weeks per year, shorter working hours than many countries, systems that support those who need assistance, a generous pension system, and support for the arts and culture on a grand scale. And here’s a tip – if you ever go to a meeting with a French person – I don’t mean meeting a friend, I mean like for a job, with the bank manager, government office type thing. Don’t smile.

Oli: No, no don’t smile! French people can be suspicious of you if you smile too much, especially if you have nothing much to smile about, they think you’re trying to hide something.

Janine: When I first came to France I read some information written by a French company for foreign employees that said and I quote: the French ‘sometimes disagree for the sake of discussion and to test conviction … they potentially view humour as lack of seriousness …’ and: ‘Losing one’s temper may be seen as a sign of leadership.’ Unquote. And they were serious. Very French!

Oli: Ok let’s end on something very French and very funny I think. A while back President Macron was interviewed on TV by a French journalist who for fun had a copy of La Misanthrope, a famous book by a 17th century French writer called Moliere, he’s like the French Shakespeare, it’s about a cynical French aristocrat who constantly grumbles about the shallow lifestyle of the times. Anyway, the journalist suggested that Macron take the book and get back together in a month’s time when he had had time to learn it, and they could perform some scenes from the book.

Janine: What for fun?

Oli: Yes, of course for fun. What - you think that wouldn’t be fun?

Janine: Well I can’t imagine the leaders of some other countries doing that! Nope, in fact I can’t imagine any politician outside of France doing that!

Oli: Well Macron said – I don’t need a month – let’s do it now. And he started to quote from the book off the top of his head. The very French thing is that you can guarantee that many people watching would also start to quote from the book by memory.

Janine: Now that is absolutely a French thing – my neighbour Claudette s always quoting Victor Hugo and Honore de Balzac…and my french friend Jacqueline says that French people like to show how clever they are by being able to quote great writers!  

Oli: But it goes deeper than that. Those at home doing the quoting alongside Macron and the journalist will no doubt start to argue about the accuracy of the quotes. Someone will get a copy of the book, they’ll look it up. They’ll call a friend if they can’t find the book. They’ll be obsessed. The dinner could catch fire. No one will care, they have to settle the point. And trust me, you don’t want to lose. Ten years from now, twenty years from now, if you was the loser, you will still be reminded of it.

Janine: Yes so true, the Frenchiest French thing ever! So there you have it, some very French Things part 2. I’m pretty sure a part 3 will be coming up soon, and if you missed part 1, you’ll find it on all apps or on my website www.thegoodlifefrance.com. 

Oli: We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode and we just want to say a huge thank you to all of you listening to our podcast and to everyone for sharing it too. We really love sharing the France we know and love with you, the authentic and real France with its wonderful history, culture, gastronomy, wine and more. It always amazes us that people are listening in about 150 countries around the world!

Janine: Yes thank you so much everyone, wherever you are, we really appreciate it. You can find me and a ton of information about France – where to visit, culture, history, recipes – everything France - at thegoodlifefrance.com where you can subscribe to the podcast, a weekly newsletter about France and my totally brilliant, completely free magazine which you can read at magazine.thegoodlifefrance.com.

But for now, it’s au revoir from me.

Olivier: And goodbye from me.

Janine: Speak to you soon!